Re: [Nolug] for all you brainy types...

As for outsourcing the programming projects.
Most often the remote sweatjobs, while they might have skilled programmers,
it is the management and the business model which kills the idea.

They utilize exactly same methods as local shady contractors. In the
bidding, they trump the price of the project below cost, then they kill you
with the change orders. and if you do not pay, your project never
completes.

Like Bret said, try to get all current code even if not finished. At least
then you can pull the plug and let someone really finish it.

Petri

On Thu, Sep 15, 2011 at 6:08 PM, Petri Laihonen <pietu@weblizards.net>wrote:

>
> I think the biggest issue, ....*Surprise!!!* The price you pay for the
> tech support. Not necessarily to where it has been outsourced.
> (Yes, domestic tech support can be prohibitively expensive with no quality
> at all.)
>
> *As for the outsourcing to India. I have never ever had a good experiences
> with such service.*
> Recent woes come from Ericsson, whom apparently outsourced their tech
> support to India about 8-9 months ago.
>
> Now I get a bunch clueless answers and some times delays of months before
> any solution. Recent issue still pending and has been for few months. And
> this is delaying a launch of a major project which would have been already
> completed 6 months ago. BTW, the recent issue is as simple as changing a
> parameter on the receiving side to accept messages up the 2Mb instead of
> 500Kb. (I received a first request to test changes couple of months ago and
> it did not work. Still doesn't)
>
> Petri
>
>
> On Thu, Sep 15, 2011 at 3:48 PM, Joey Kelly <joey@joeykelly.net> wrote:
>
>> On Thursday 15 September 2011 14:15, Ron Johnson wrote:
>> > Would it occur to you to write something like, "Boy, I sure am glad that
>> > my support dollars go to white people who can speak proper English
>> > instead of blacks who only know Ebonics."?
>>
>> Please don't make me step in here...
>>
>> --Joey
>>
>> >
>> > On 09/15/2011 01:46 PM, Shannon Roddy wrote:
>> > > On Thu, Sep 15, 2011 at 9:10 AM, Ron Johnson<ron.l.johnson@cox.net>
>> wrote:
>> > >> That's pretty racist.
>> > >
>> > > Seriously? The statement that I find it very difficult to communicate
>> > > with most Indians on the phone while in a noisy server room is racist?
>> I
>> > > find that it is nearly impossible to understand Indian accents on the
>> > > phone, even without a ton of background noise. I seriously don't
>> think I
>> > > am alone in the sentiment that Indian accents are very difficult to
>> > > understand. Go back and read what I said. I never said Indians are
>> > > incompetent, or Indians are blah blah blah... I just said I appreciate
>> > > the fact that my support dollars are going to people I can actually
>> > > communicate with when needed and happen to be competent also.
>> > >
>> > > If you are accusing me of being racist, you are mistaken and I am
>> > > offended.
>> > >
>> > >> I've been working mostly with Indians since 1994 and they're just as
>> > >> (in)competent as the white (haven't worked with many blacks)
>> > >> programmers, systems analysts and DBA I work with.
>> > >>
>> > >> On 09/15/2011 08:35 AM, Shannon Roddy wrote:
>> > >>> I've been working an issue that cropped up in the middle of the
>> night
>> > >>> on Monday all week, and have been working with techs from Amsterdam.
>> > >>> While they are not shifted 12 hours time, it has been enough of a
>> shift
>> > >>> (8 hours)
>> > >>> that the times work well as I am able to do the disruptive testing
>> > >>> during non-business hours this week. I can't tell you what day it
>> is
>> > >>> right now, but working with these guys in Amsterdam is sooooo much
>> > >>> better than trying to talk to an Indian on the phone in a noisy
>> server
>> > >>> room. These guys have been competent and speak English extremely
>> well.
>> > >>>
>> > >>> Just food for thought. I have no idea what it would cost to hire
>> such
>> > >>> types, but I can tell you that I appreciate that my support contract
>> > >>> dollars
>> > >>> have been going to competent English speaking techs without an
>> Indian
>> > >>> accent.
>> > >>>
>> > >>> On Thu, Sep 15, 2011 at 7:08 AM, Dustin
>> > >>> Puryear<dpuryear@puryear-it.**com<dpuryear@puryear-it.com>
>> > >>>
>> > >>>> wrote:
>> > >>>
>> > >>> We use a resource in India for some of our NOC operations (backup
>> > >>> errors
>> > >>>
>> > >>>> mostly). Honestly, the cost is not that far from a US resource, so
>> > >>>> that isn’t the real reason we use him. Instead, the fact that he
>> works
>> > >>>> in a very
>> > >>>> different time zone is a huge benefit since these errors come up
>> late
>> > >>>> at night—so he is able to work them when they occur rather than 12
>> > >>>> hours later.
>> > >>>> That said, while he is technically sophisticated (he has tons of
>> > >>>> experience), there are communication issues (mostly cultural).
>> We’ve
>> > >>>> had to
>> > >>>> learn how to talk to one another after various meetings on the
>> topic.
>> > >>>> You have to find the right person/people and really work at it to
>> make
>> > >>>> the relationship effective.****
>> > >>>>
>> > >>>> ** **
>> > >>>>
>> > >>>> ---****
>> > >>>>
>> > >>>> Dustin Puryear****
>> > >>>>
>> > >>>> Puryear IT, LLC - We see IT differently.****
>> > >>>>
>> > >>>> Baton Rouge, LA - 225-706-8414 x1112****
>> > >>>>
>> > >>>> http://www.puryear-it.com/****
>> > >>>>
>> > >>>> ** **
>> > >>>>
>> > >>>> ** **
>> > >>>>
>> > >>>> *From:*
>> > >>>> owner-nolug@stoney.kellynet.**org<owner-nolug@stoney.kellynet.org
>> >[mai
>> > >>>>lto:
>> > >>>> owner-nolug@stoney.kellynet.**org<owner-nolug@stoney.kellynet.org
>> >]
>> > >>>> *On Behalf Of *Chris Jones
>> > >>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, September 14, 2011 9:15 PM
>> > >>>> *To:* nolug@nolug.org
>> > >>>> *Subject:* Re: [Nolug] for all you brainy types...****
>> > >>>>
>> > >>>> ** **
>> > >>>>
>> > >>>> I have a unique way of looking at things that most good computer
>> techs
>> > >>>> seem
>> > >>>> to have in common. I haven't spoken to anybody over in India who
>> > >>>> thinks in
>> > >>>> this way. In other words, their grasp of underlying technologies
>> > >>>> seems to
>> > >>>> be pretty low, and their troubleshooting skills typically involve
>> > >>>> reading from a script and following a flow chart.****
>> > >>>>
>> > >>>> On Wed, Sep 14, 2011 at 7:28 PM, Joey Kelly<joey@joeykelly.net>
>> > >>>> wrote:***
>> > >>>> *
>> > >>>>
>> > >>>> On Wed September 14 2011 7:17 pm, Mark A. Hershberger wrote:
>> > >>>>> Clint Billedeaux<clint@fastbadge.com**> writes:
>> > >>>>>> You post this as I try to pry the boss away from India's very
>> > >>>>>> talented programming pool
>> > >>>>>
>> > >>>>> I've no doubt there are talented programmers in India (the WMF is
>> > >>>>> especially interested in India lately, so I've talked to one or
>> two
>> > >>>>> of the programmers there) but most of the raw data I've seen
>> doesn't
>> > >>>>> match the "very talented" tag.
>> > >>>>> ****
>> > >>>>
>> > >>>> In my limited experience with Indian outsourcing, the techs all
>> seem
>> > >>>> to have
>> > >>>> the same shortcomings, and have apparently read the same inadequate
>> > >>>> (read "oftentimes wrong") books, thus making the same mistakes.
>>
>> --
>> Joey Kelly
>> Minister of the Gospel and Linux Consultant
>> http://joeykelly.net
>> 504-239-6550
>> ___________________
>> Nolug mailing list
>> nolug@nolug.org
>>
>
>

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Received on 09/15/11