Re: [Nolug] XDM - Debian Question

On Mon, 2004-02-16 at 15:51, Kevin Kreamer wrote:
> On Feb 16, 2004, at 12:16, James Scott wrote:
> > On Mon, 2004-02-16 at 00:24, Kevin Kreamer wrote:
> >> On Feb 15, 2004, at 23:53, G. Meyers wrote:
> >>> I installed Debian 3.0 not too long ago. Changed source from stable
> >>> to testing, did an apt-get update and upgrade. Decided to get
> >>> XFree86
> >>> so I did an "apt-get install x-window-system". This installed XDM.
> >>> Don't really care too much for XDM and would either like to remove it
> >>> or at least install either GDM or KDM in its place.
> >
> > Though all of the methods here will work I think we should help the
> > "new
> > with a concept or 2 here. First XDM, GDM, KDM, are GUI login managers.
> > The only conflict between them is you cannot use them all at once.
> > They
> > can however co-exist on the system without conflict. To use one or the
> > other however represents a choice of windowing environments. If the
> > choice to boot to a GUI login is made automatic (controlled by setting
> > the init level to 5 in inittab) one must also make a default choice of
> > a
> > login manager.
>
> I was talking of Conflicts in terms of Debian packages. However, as
> Ron pointed out, it seems that they no longer conflict with each other,
> in Debian's unstable branch. I think that they did conflict once, in
> the past, but I'm not sure. I generally don't use XDM, and so one of
> the first things I do is to remove it.
>
> > One can choose not to have the machine to boot to a GUI login manager
> > at
> > all and whether you use a configuration tool or edit the inittab file
> > directly the net effect is set the init level to 3.
> > Example of inittab entry in question.
> >
> > id:5:initdefault: for boot to X
> > id:3:initdefault: for boot to prompt no X running
>
> Debian does not use runlevels in this way. With Debian, the default
> runlevel is 2, and Debian itself does not differentiate between
> runlevels 2 through 5. They are reserved for administrator use. Which
> means, that if xdm is installed, by default it will run and run on all
> runlevels 2 through 5.
>
> > Next if set to 5 inittab (in RH9) calls x:5:respawn:/etc/X11/prefdm
> > -nodaemon. Which in turn looks at /etc/sysconfig/desktop witch is
> > where
> > the actual desktop environment is defined (In my system
> > DESKTOP="GNOME").
>
> I went ahead and install two of the *dm to see how Debian handles it
> now. When configuring the second one, a debconf prompt came up and
> asked me which to use as a default. That choice was recorded in
> /etc/X11/default-window-manager, and is looked at when the system init
> scripts are run. So, I was wrong about them conflicting. Sorry about
> that.
>
> Debian does not have /etc/X11/prefdm nor does it have a /etc/sysconfig
> directory at all.
>
> > If I had installed the KDE environment or another and the files were on
> > the machine changing this line would start the one of choice and not
> > harm another.
> > The script startx just checks if there are any special user
> > configuration files and some other stuff and then runs X and clients.
> > because you have already logged in with your user name and password
> > there is no need for login screen and moving to init level 5 (an X
> > session).
> > One can enter the command "init 5" at the prompt and get the same
> > result.
>
> This will, of course, run all the init scripts dealing with runlevel 5,
> including many other deamons unrelated to X and XDM. Also, to be
> clear, the system is still at runlevel 5 (on a RedHat machine, 2 on
> Debian, by default) when you are logged in. It's just that XDM isn't
> running at that point.
I cannot spend too much time on this day but I would like to keep this
discussion alive. Please understand I am not seeking conflict but
clarity.
First if this is true it is terribly un-*NIX of them to arrange it this
way. I have never seen any documentation that supports run levels as
you describe here. This however does not mean it is not true.
Second, how can we check if this is accurate. We must be able to find a
command that tells what run level we are at. I can't think of one right
now.
I have done much maintenance on many different flavors of UNIX less on
Linux. In general even though there is some differences of approach
(config files having differents names or certain services running at
different levels) most things are more similar than we are finding here.
Third (and I hope we agree here) XDM is not necessary for X at all. It
is just the login screen. Once one is "logged in" as a user of any type
starting an Xclient should not require a *DM of any type.
Fourth access to run levels other than 3 or 5 should only be available
to root. I would not like end users to be able to control such a thing
on my box.
We have touched on a lot of subjects here and for me it would
interesting to work it out.
>
> > Ok. I think I got carried away. The point is you do not have to
> > "un-install" one to install another.
>
> This is true with Debian as well as with RedHat, at least in sid.
>
> Hope this helps,
> Kevin
>
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-- 
James Scott <jhs_technical@cox.net>
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