Re: [Nolug] Introducing myself

On Sat, Dec 06, 2008 at 02:52:55PM -0600, Ron Johnson wrote:
> On 12/06/08 14:41, Dennis J Harrison Jr wrote:
> >I would be happy to help you grok python(1). Or really, anything for
> >that matter.
> >
> >There are plenty of ways to get your app running in android. What
> >types of apps are you looking to dev?
> >
> >I am going to completely disagree with you that PHP is a good first
> >language. It is sloppy, and full of horrendous examples. Python is a
> >much better language to learn on. I suggest to my interns that they
> >learn python first. C# second (# particularly because of mono and the
> >semantics that go along with it). And then branch off from there. Of
> >course, that is only a suggestion to them.
>
> Python is a great learning scripting language, but new programmers
> *need* to know the hardware. Assembly programming, preferably in
> MS-DOS or CP/M, would be best.

The "best" first programming language is that which allows one to achieve the gratification of programing *something* as quickly as possible. For many it is PHP or some "web app" language because creating a web app is often the shortest path to that "ah ha!" moment of getting your program to work. I started programming web apps, and I doubt I would have started at all if I didn't have this environment in which to learn.

As long as the basics are learned in the beginning, there is no irreparable brain damage done even if some 'unlearning' has to occur if one wishes to master programming in general. The basic concepts learn are, of course: variables, conditionals, and looping constructs. Once this is learned, the budding programming can look into what functions are.

Further exploration could lead to more advanced programming and different paradigms, including OOP. At some point (and for good measure) one really should try to understand functional programming, which exposes the other side of the same coin, but I would never recommend anyone /start/ with a functional language.

The ultimate goal for anyone learning to program is to get to the point where most languages start to look the same and picking up a new language is a simple matter of looking at the peculiararities of the language and syntax. I would think less of any serious programmer that didn't have a favorite language, but finding one's preferred tool is a personal journey and choice. I would never think of imposing my favorite language on anyone.

I absolutely disagree that programmers need to "know the hardware," especially these days. Your suggestion of this draconian route serves only to discourage would-be programmers. In my opinion, one only needs to know assembly if they are writing low level architecture specific drivers or are involved in writing compiler back-ends (for both real and virtual targets). In addition to this, ASM provides no intuitive way of implementing general algorithms, so forcing one to start programming using such a primitive model makes absolutely no sense whatsoever if their goal is to learn general programming.

Cheers,
Brett

>
> --
> Ron Johnson, Jr.
> Jefferson LA USA
>
> How does being physically handicapped make me Differently-Abled?
> What different abilities do I have?
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Louisiana Optical Network Initiative
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