Re: [Nolug] Introducing myself

On Sat, Dec 06, 2008 at 06:18:07PM -0500, Petri Laihonen wrote:
> Hey but I would not know anything about PHP's sloppiness nor its examples
> being horrendous. I have nothing to compare to.... ....err actually I
> do. .ASP. And I would never change PHP into ASP.....
>
> ASP was the first "language" I got into due to necessity. Then became PHP,
> also due to necessity of getting rid of some M$ stuff we had and my
> growing interest of replacing all Windows servers with Linux.
> (Unfortunately I still have one Winbox. Though I'm running Apache, MySql,
> PHP, Perl in that winbox.)
>
> I tried to get into C++ a while back, but there seems to be some
> prerequisite concepts which needs to be understood before even starting
> and I found no good start point.... even organizing the operational
> workspace seems confusing. Then run out of time...

Based on my experience, one should only use C++ if they are able to take advantage of its features. Too often I see people picking up C++ (or the language de jour) because of popularity. The result, in the case of C++, is that you get C-style programs written in a convoluted way. You're not missing anything by not being on the C++ boat.

>
> I guess my way of learning does not suit to it, as I learn through working
> examples (Even in PHP).... Reading books does not teach me anything. It
> is like just a bunch of letters arranged after each other with no
> comprehensive meaning.
>
> Petri
>
>
> > I am going to completely disagree with you that PHP is a good first
> > language. It is sloppy, and full of horrendous examples. Python is a
> > much better language to learn on. I suggest to my interns that they
> > learn python first. C# second (# particularly because of mono and the
> > semantics that go along with it). And then branch off from there. Of
> > course, that is only a suggestion to them.
> >
> >
> > On Sat, Dec 6, 2008 at 12:04 PM, Petri Laihonen <pietu@weblizards.net>
> > wrote:
> >> I think PHP is very good for people like me, who know nothing about
> >> programming and have no education in computer sciences.
> >> Then on the other hand, If I have a need and time to learn other
> >> languages, I will.
> >>
> >> The next one I may have to pick up a bit is java. Seems like Android
> >> development is java only and I may have to create an android client to
> >> interface with our content platform.
> >>
> >> For a very short period of time, I did consider looking into iPhuck
> >> (iPhoney seems to be taken) SDK, but since leopard does not like to run
> >> in VM, I scraped the idea. Buying an outrageously expensive Macs only
> >> for checking out the SDK is out of the question....
> >>
> >> Petri
> >>
> >> Dennis J Harrison Jr wrote:
> >>> I have used php here and there since 1998. I will never willingly
> >>> touch it again :)
> >>>
> >>> /RANT ON
> >>>
> >>> It has trash for unit tests and PDO is buggier than all get out. Lack
> >>> of real name spaces is also a minor annoyance. And what really turned
> >>> me off, was I guess... having to constantly fix very poorly written
> >>> code. Not to mention that it completely and totally pales in
> >>> comparison to python/c#/java(shudder)/erlang(syntax?!)/boo/C/etc...
> >>> for any sort of heavy lifting/programmer sanity. Especially in a
> >>> larger code base such as a project like sugarcrm is bound to have.
> >>> And then the wide spread use of smarty... ugh. I guess... if I were
> >>> to use php again today, it would be wielded in a totally different
> >>> manner. But I can't see myself giving up all the easy buttons python
> >>> has spoiled me with.
> >>>
> >>> Have a peak at trellis for an example of something you can't sanely do
> >>> somewhere else.
> >>> http://peak.telecommunity.com/DevCenter/Trellis
> >>>
> >>> Also, the much hated ZODB (aka, super pickle!) :)
> >>>
> >>> Although, to each their own. And please forgive my zealous opinion :)
> >>> As I am clearly a python advocate.
> >>>
> >>> My view is that python is the best language to use unless you have a
> >>> very good reason for using another language (you NEED multi threading
> >>> and can't cope using events... etc)
> >>> Which then usually has me in C.
> >>>
> >>> Not to say that I am blind to the much touted reasons for so much dev
> >>> continuing to be done in php. I am just lucky enough not to 'need' to
> >>> use php any more.
> >>>
> >>> /RANT OFF
> >>>
> >>> Africa?! Sounds fun.
> >>>
> >>> On Fri, Dec 5, 2008 at 10:08 AM, Mark A. Hershberger
> >>> <mah@everybody.org> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> "Dennis J Harrison Jr" <dennisharrison@gmail.com> writes:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> Anyone use PHP because it is "well supported, and mature" ?
> >>>>>
> >>>> I use PHP because it is available everywhere and almost anyone can
> >>>> pick
> >>>> it up quickly.
> >>>>
> >>>> Which, in some sense, means it is well supported and mature.
> >>>>
> >>>> What fascinates me is how some people use PHP as a fast-and-loose
> >>>> script-it-now language, others use it like C ? trying to get as much
> >>>> performance as possible and worrying about things like variable
> >>>> interpolation in strings, and still others (the project I'm working
> >>>> on)
> >>>> use it as a "real" OO language for building enterprise applications.
> >>>>
> >>>> PHP is better at "worse is better" than Perl is. (And, yes, Perl is my
> >>>> true love.)
> >>>>
> >>>> Mark.
> >>>> ___________________
> >>>> Nolug mailing list
> >>>> nolug@nolug.org
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>> ___________________
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> >>> nolug@nolug.org
> >>>
> >>>
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-- 
B. Estrade
Louisiana Optical Network Initiative
+1.225.578.1920 aim: bz743
:wq
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